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Forum:Mihawk's name
Taking a Crack at it I know Justyn has a prob with the name... But I said it on Wikipedia and I will SAY it again... There is no PROOF for Juraquille Mihawk, but there is for Dracule... Even if it is the 4Kids version. When Oda supply us it, I will never ague about the name again. Show me proof, but until then, lets go with what we know not the popular fan names? Bon CLAY anyone? I'm supporting it being what it is on Wikipedia, default Dracule FOR NOW until proven otherwise. One-Winged Hawk 22:19, 12 December 2006 (UTC) :Pretty sure "dracule" was just 4Kids version, which may not have been properly romanized, or changed to make him fit that vampire theme, which he kinda has but 4Kids probably did another stereotype. I'm not just saying it because I dislike them, they do give stereotypes, very annoying ones too. Cody2526 22:29, 12 December 2006 (UTC) ::We haven't solved this issue on wikipedia... We can't really have it as this name until we prove it is the correct name. Thats what I'm saying, that until its proven we have a incorrect title name and can't say we are not using fan names either. I'm pretty much sure, 4Kids have it wrong also, but like I said... We can't argue otherwise until we get that Japanese version name. :/ One-Winged Hawk 22:49, 12 December 2006 (UTC) :::Seriously... (Okay I apologise for even more spelling mistakes the usual as the keyboard on the computer I am using isn't mine and its kinda iffy to use... O.o#). We shouldn't be using this as a default name until someone shows us what the Japanese Latin text is. One-Winged Hawk 22:30, 19 December 2006 (UTC) ::::By "Japanese Latin text", do you mean the romaji? If that's the case, Jurakyuuru Mihooku is how his whole name is romanized. --Murasaki 23:10, 19 December 2006 (UTC) :::::I'm using my father's computer... I missed two words out it didn't type... "is in". I seriously hate this keyboard... T_T 82.34.192.189 06:43, 20 December 2006 (UTC) Okay if no one wants to take the time to prove me wrong, Its going back to Dracule Mihawk. Don't complain, bring me proof. I won't accept a complaint, I will accept proof though. One-Winged Hawk 19:19, 21 December 2006 (UTC) :What do you mean by proof? There's no proof for any of it, it sounds like it could be either one, I just have no clue what you're talking about. XD --Murasaki 22:32, 21 December 2006 (UTC) ::We have the English dub for Dracule... Thats something. I just want to see the Latin spelling in the Japanese version in plain english text. I know I got it out wrong before, but that was due to my dad's computer leaving out some letters (my computer was in the shop, I have it back now). That what I'm talking about. Its similar to Zoro/Zolo except we had both references to go by in that case as proof for either name. One-Winged Hawk 22:36, 21 December 2006 (UTC) :::Oh, okay. There's nothing either way, since nobody actually calls him by his full name, including Oda-sensei. XD XD The only time it's even used is when he tells Zoro his name. Either one works perfectly fine with the kana, though... "Juraquille" sounds more accurate if you pronounce it slowly, but "Dracule" sounds more accurate if you say it at the correct speed... I really don't mind either way, I always just call him Mihawk. XD --Murasaki 04:06, 22 December 2006 (UTC) ::::I do the same... It save you being attacked on the fanforums for using the wrong name (either name it seems). One-Winged Hawk 06:59, 22 December 2006 (UTC) Ubig from APforums supports "Dracule" and I agree with him. I mean this guy looks like a Vampire, man. His dressing is vampire like, he has a cross necklace, his sword hilt looks like a cross, his face is cold and looks like a vampire, he rides in a coffin-shaped raft with two green candles, he disappears too fast. The name "Dracule" fits him and "Juraquille" is just a fandom name. (Joekido 23:12, 21 December 2006 (UTC)) Riddle of the name possibly solve: Breaking up the name ジュラキュール comes out funny on one translator: "ジュ" when alone comes up Jew. ラキュール translates as "Jewel". Is Oda saying his name is "Jew Jewel?". I think "Jewel" may be correct as thats whats on his sword... Jewels. One-Winged Hawk 11:17, 11 February 2009 (UTC) :Hmm... Not helpful, other translators argue otherwise, prounuication wise "Jew Jewel" does sound a little close, but really funny to the ears. But neither "Jew" or "Jewel" comes out in comfirmation on direct translations...One-Winged Hawk 11:31, 11 February 2009 (UTC) :Reading the french wikia: ラキュール means "the cure" in french. But they argue over that too from what I've got translated and on my screen and no translation for the first part. One says it means "Du" or "from" to us, but proved otherwise by others... That would make his name "From the cure". Again, this leds to nothing. French convo here: translated, sorry to other editors about crazyness upon editing this page. One-Winged Hawk 11:40, 11 February 2009 (UTC) ::Another Translator threw up: Juracul, by now I definately am going for there being no english connections at all... Sadly without being French I can't find a translator for Japanese to French or other languages. When you listen to the anime, the voic actor is rolling his tongue, which suggests its possible Arab or Jewish at the very least he is trying to say it as... One-Winged Hawk 11:48, 11 February 2009 (UTC) :::Okay I'm going to go out and a limb here and say there is (somehow) a connection here that isn't hitting the spot. Not a single non-Japanese fan at the very least is correct... Possibly not even a Japanese fan from what I've seen. I can comfirm relistening to the anime, the anime at least is not saying "Jew Jewel", but the rolling tongue sounds like "Dra" at the beginning and "Cule" at the end. You can't hear the "Jura" hardly at all and this is hy I've always been against the "Juraquille" name. I suspect if it is "Jew Jewel" as one translation has thrown up, someonehas censored the word come the anime due to the crosses on Mihawk. "Jew" would be a delicate word for being included in the name, especially considering the crosses and the coffin... >_<' One-Winged Hawk 12:10, 11 February 2009 (UTC) ::::Well heres something: on light of the link to dracula: ジュ'ラキュ'ール is found in dracula (dora'kyura') and ジュラキュ'ール' = Joule; Juhl; Jules which are all names! So what I think Oda has done is slipped part of Dracula's name into the middle of this name. Joule incidently is another word for "jolly" linked to pirates... Via one method... So this is where I've ended this, I've come to the conclusion Oda's messing around with words. I presume I suspect I'm right and his name is a combo of Joule and Dracule's last part of the name (which is Kyura). One-Winged Hawk 12:43, 11 February 2009 (UTC) :::::Well wrote out a thoery and all and put it on AP... I'm expecting to be flamed but I've got no other way of getting the thoery confirmed. One-Winged Hawk 13:09, 11 February 2009 (UTC) Theory correct? So far my theory is correct it seems... Jouculale/Juculales is therefore Mihawk's surname. There are intereasting thing coming up at Arlong PArk. I'm going to leave this until tomorrow, then put forward a new preposal, moving this article to a better name. The only thing left o decide is if Jouculale or Juculales is correct. Whole topic being discussed here: at Arlong Park. It means neither Dracule or Juraquille is correct. One-Winged Hawk 20:03, 11 February 2009 (UTC) ---- Well it appears I'm correct, bt everyone's arguing at Arlng Park because its a convo going no where and no proper translator has enteed the argument. Okay, heres the full explaination and some support for the name theory: #Mihawk's name: ジュラキュール contains ラキュ whch is taken from the latter half of Dracula's in Japanese. #Anow if we remove ラキュfrom that name we get ジュール #ジュール comes out from the same source I used for Dracula as the names: Joule; Juhl; Jules Debunking the currently aceptted names: #If "Dracule" was correct, we would have:Dorakure as the Romanization. #If Juraquille/Juraquile was correct we'd have: Jurakuyrure/Jurakuyre #We're aiming for Jurakyūru, neither dracule and juraquille/juraquile fits back into this correctly as ジュラキュール. In support of the theory: #however if the theory on the name I put forward is correct, then its actually meant to be: juukyūraru (Dracula is "dorakyura" in Japanese and Jules/Joule is "juuru", the word is a combo of the two). #If you accept how the name has been gathered, but a combo of two names, and how the names were combined, this WILL fit back into ジュラキュール as I have put forward. In Latin text it would end up as "Joucule" or "Jucules", since ジュール is used for three names. #If you listen to the anime, it does sound like "Joucule" or "Jucules" (note; the ending "le" and "les" is almost silent due how its suppose to be prounced since none of the words are English). However, Mihawk's Japanese VA rolls his tongue as he says it, which doesn't help at all with identification... #In addition, Joule is the name of a measurement of power, which beating Mihawk is... However "Jules" is also the name of the writer of 20,000 leagues under the sae, about Captain Nemo a pirate captain. Which would give us our a link in Mihawk to (abide fictional) a pirate! I'll wait a little while, then make some alterations to the article. Whether or not we change the name is up to us... We aim for the correct most name, which I'm not going to say out of the two is correct. However, we have argued in the past that neither Juraquille or Dracule is correct... So we should consider the new name and a written explaination as to why. One-Winged Hawk 15:43, 12 February 2009 (UTC) :What I have confirmed now is our pages has the wrong Romanization on it... I'll correct it, itsmaybe a "forced" romanization to match Juraquille, which someone on that AP discussion has thrown out the door as correct. One-Winged Hawk 17:28, 12 February 2009 (UTC) ::Dirt Monkey Al suggests: Juracule or Jouracule. Hows that sound folks? One-Winged Hawk 17:39, 12 February 2009 (UTC) ::Corrected the romanization, is apprently missing a "u" since the "-" is lengthening the name. Opening to being proven wrong. One-Winged Hawk 17:42, 12 February 2009 (UTC) Excuse me, but then if you really change "Dracule" to "Juracule", wouldn't that just be a bit weird? I mean, Mihawk's supposed to be related to Dracula, and even though it's like that in Japanese, we're talking about ENGLISH right now. So, can someone please just change "Juracule" to "Dracule"? I'm pretty much a newbie here, so I don't think I should do it... --Animecrazy V 17:40, 20 March 2009 (UTC) :I myself have doubts from day one of "Juracule" but equally I've never been 100% sure "Dracule" was correct either. I sat down for hours with a friend going over anime examples and every one came throwing things back at me. If you read the translation and dub issues section, it explains the problems with "Dracule". M One-Winged Hawk 19:24, 20 March 2009 (UTC) ::Whoa, whoa, whoa. What? "Jurakyuuru" can be definitely romanized as "Dracule." The pronunciation is the same. Jules Verne and the Joule have absolutely nothing to do with the character--it makes no sense to write his name that way. That whole crackpot theory was written with someone who obviously has no understanding of the Japanese language. He had to use an online translator to translate katakana. You can't just remove "rakyu" out of someone's name and then come up with "Jules" and "Joule"--that's completely inane. His romanizations for "Dracule" and "Juraquille" are both incorrect (the latter being "Jurakiiru," not "Jurakuyrure"...that's impossible to even write in Japanese). Juracule could work too, but given the way the character looks, "Dracule" is the best bet. -Mr. Toto 23:53, 19 June 2009 (UTC) :No one said his surname translates into 'Jules' or 'Joule'; we meant part of his surname, not all of it, may have been based on it. Verne wrote the novel "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea". Since both Verne's novel and Oda's manga are both about sea exploration, it is possible his surname is based on 'Jules'. (Not so sure about 'Joule') :Dracule is not an impossible translation. But we do not use a name because it's the most popular or is used in some versions. Until Oda himself provides a translation, Mihawk's name is up for speculation; which we don't allow and try to avoid the best we can. Read the 'Name Change' section of this page below for further explanations. ::ALSO please keep your comments civil and don't say things like 'crackpot'. We've had users with atittude problems before, most end up getting blocked. You'll notice that some of the comments here are rather aggressive, don't be like them. Since you're new, you don't want the others to have a bad impression of you now, do you? ::Kaizoku-Hime 01:27, 20 June 2009 (UTC) :::Please understand that the term "crackpot" was directed towards the theory and not the person--nowhere did I insult the poster at all. I did, however, question the ability of the person to speak Japanese--which was warranted. Katakana can be read by five-year-olds in Japan. To someone who speaks both Japanese and English, none of the rationale for choosing "Juracule" makes a lick of sense. :::First of all, "Juracule Mihawk" is such an obscure term that I don't think it's even once been used in a scanlation. Secondly, 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea is solely about sea exploration. The main character is a marine biologist, not a pirate. Captain Nemo is runs a submarine, not a pirate ship. And there's no way that Mihawk's surname is derived from Jules Verne--the man's a science fiction writer who wrote only one book concerning the sea. Also, consider that half of Mihawk's name is removed when you turn "Jurakyuuru" into just "Juuru." An equivalent thing to do in English would be like removing "hr" and "sto" from the name "Christopher" and coming out with the word "Cipher." You can't just take parts from names and compose a new one in this situation--it's just obviously not the intent.-Mr. Toto 15:01, 20 June 2009 (UTC) Mihawk Problem Who cares what AP says? Mihawk is much more common and until Oda says otherwise that IS the name. Drunk Samurai 19:56, 12 February 2009 (UTC) :We have a full name for him... And Confirmation on what it should be... Thats important, part of this site is to find the "correct" version of the name and explain how the name is formed. We don't use "th most popular" as wikipedia insisted as we were all against it when we moved here. Its partly why we set up the wikia, to break away from the rules and relgulations that insist one name gets used when incorrect over the correct name for very silly reasons. Again, classic example is Chew. One-Winged Hawk 20:09, 12 February 2009 (UTC) Confirmation by a bunch of fans? I didn't realize that everybody at AP was Eiichiro Oda Drunk Samurai 20:13, 12 February 2009 (UTC) :Very funny DS, but knock the grumbles on the head. We've debunked names before where Oda's not supplied the corrected name. I don't always agree on what comes up, but this time we've been putting our thinking caps on and trying to break the Mihawk name code. Its pretty much the end of it. If you care to follow the name variants link at the top of the main article, I've noted why "Dracule" never was correct in the firs place. One-Winged Hawk 20:23, 12 February 2009 (UTC) ::Okay note is on the main page too so the explaination again "Dracule" is now on both pages. One-Winged Hawk 20:35, 12 February 2009 (UTC) Explain this, DS: You say Dracule should be used because it's "much more common" (appeal to popularity), but when you're told the name more people have agreed on using actual reasoning, you don't want to use it. 16:15, 13 February 2009 (UTC) :Trouble is, though its a nice co-incidence about the current name due to the links it produces, there are also a lot of other possible names... Part of me thinks Oda was copying the name "dracula" but decided to be clever. Juracule can be read as "Duracule" too. The more I think of it, I think Oda is aware of Jules spelling, and that Du and Ju arethe same in Japanese and has done something really clever here to get something simulair, but not the same. >_< One-Winged Hawk 17:12, 13 February 2009 (UTC) ::Trying to get this sorted on AP. One of the translators came in at last, but their saying "dra" but after readinga lot on the net I get conflicts back from my reading. I got an old anime friend of mine helping me now thats disagreeing with what hey are saying but coming up with explainations to the "why" their saying it. So I'm back at square one with this. "Du" or "ju" at the start is all I've got confirmed on this from my friend against "dra", since its far too arkward, basically my friend has come to the conclusion the voice actors being lazy and not saying the "u" even when required (example I put on AP; she told me about a show where a character didn't both saying the main characters name constantly). Which apparently it quite common and I'm kicking myself since I've watched anime longer then she has and never noticed silent "u"s. Thats what you get for paying attention to the subtitles souly. One-Winged Hawk 09:01, 14 February 2009 (UTC) The demand for it to back to "Dracule" is high... Okay some more support against: #ドラグーン = Dragoon from Beyblade(in fact... Every beyblade bit-beast on the Bladebreakers team started with "dra" (except Dri, who still had "ド" the same letter this is why "Dracule" has always bothered me). #ドラキュラ = Dracula #ドラゴン = Dragon - from One Piece itself. Please note the starting letter is the same in these examples. Okay, we can turn it to "Duracule" because that counts. To create any "dra" sound you need that "ドラ" letter at the start, its pretty common and I can't accept with all of this Oda would make such a mistake. On top of this it only becomes "Dra" if the U is spoken silently. I've spent hours trying to find evidence to point to it possibly being this, but nothing backs it up. We can't rely on Japanese Voice Actors 100% as I've been confirmed, even if the U isn't silent, voice actors will often make it silent. I've spent hours trying to PROVE it can, but come back to the same old, same old. And a big sick of this now... Okay, I did an example, I took those three previous example and replaced their first letter with "ジュ". I got nothing back except on dragon, which produced a reptile breeding incubator. And from what I gather, its a suppose to be a catchy name... "Juragon". One-Winged Hawk 22:07, 15 February 2009 (UTC) Nothing comes up except that because I've got pages of price guides and e-bay and websites for this thing. Which is quite annoying. One-Winged Hawk 22:07, 15 February 2009 (UTC) It's obvious Dracule makes the most sense. With the connection with vampire-like design scheme. The way I see it, Jurakyūuru is pronounced extremely close to Dracule. Dra-cu-le Jura-kyuu-ru Japanese doesn't have the "L" sound and suffices with the traditional "ru". That is the only mistake the way I see it. At dictionary.com, http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Dracula, the beginning of Dracula sounds the same exact way as Jura-kyuu. Oda obviously must have written what to him seemed closest to Dracule which was Jurakyuuru. I believe he was right because the "Dra" in Dracule and Dracula are without major expression which would give the "dora" which sounds more like "draw". Jurakyuuru is a better Engrish translation in my opinion. Vaimond 00:18, 16 February 2009 (UTC)Vaimond :I think you missed a lot of points... Okay lets go back to the basics with this shall we? Lets look at the manga AND the Data books. If we check over them, wow there isn't an instnce of Oda writing it outside of Japanese. We don't know what Oda was aiming for at this point, since Oda has never provided a latin text version. I'll stress this time and time again. Therefore, even "Dracule" is a guess by fans. We don't know exactly what Oda was aiming for... Good example: Thatch, which every translator wrote as "Satch" or "satchi" or otherwise (and dubbers still do). We can have either Ju or Du for now, but I'm throwing "dra" out because its too abnormal. One-Winged Hawk 08:56, 16 February 2009 (UTC) ::I think you're missing that by the way Oda wrote Jurakyuuru, it most resembles Dracule. That and basically every dubbing uses Dracule or a variation of it. The sheer similarity with pronunciation, design scheme, the fact that Dracula means son of Dracul (Dracule) means the sheer similarities between Mihawk and Dracula, also that Dracul was based of Vlad the Impaler, the 15th century prince of Romania. Many also speculate that due to the clothing Mihawk is based off of Bartholomew Roberts who's first act of captain was to led his crew back to Principe, the Island of Princes (may just be a coincidence). Oda must have been seeing how Dracule/Dracula was being said in English and believed that Jurakyuuru was the closest thing to it. I see it the same way. Dracule and Jurakyuuru just sound the same in my opinion. It flows together, in a way. The question is whether Oda was completely wrong with the translation of Dracule, which Dracule would make far more since seeing how all of the references to vampires and such, coffin boat, crucifixes, paleness, sharp facial features, it is Dracule, of which his best representation would be Jurakyuuru, or it is something else and he just made it more far off from his design scheme. Dracule fits and sounds very similar, basically the same. I'm sticking with Dracule until Oda puts a Western style/latin name form up, seeing how paid translators, whose job is to do such things, all over the world came up with relatively the same name.Vaimond 18:01, 16 February 2009 (UTC) :::I normally dodge the name in question by saying "Mihawk", hence why when I write his name out on the wikia I write "Mihawk" and nothing else. However other editors are not me and everyone has their preference, so I've had to go around and change it, I'd prefer if we avoid the surname too, but some pages like Zoro's its imposssible. I've made it clear its obivous there is a link to Dracula, but from Oda's habbits in the manga thus far, he often merges and alters names... One cannot deny the closeness of names, thats to dam obivous to even question, but there is always a note of consideration for da's habbits throughout the series of doing as he pleases. If Oda ever writes the name "Dracule" I'm happy for everything to go back, since we strive to have the most accurate name on the wikia. However, in the meantime we've got a translation problem on this page since a translation doesn't click into place, and the name itself is made up so no direct Translation from Japanese to English can be used. Its easier rather to have a much safer translation then a popular fan fade until Oda gives us an english translation. Its like "Juraquille", which the translators at AP all squashed (thankfully) now, its a fan based name and one I'm never happy seeing. :::I often remind translators that everyone was writing "Satchi" (Thatch) or a variation of it instead of its correct name, as well as Thriller Bark's long horde of guessing which no one got right. Oda does a lot of research in his series, which is why we see references from this, that and everywhere, do we really want to accuse him of "getting it wrong?". He has been wrong before on several occusions, but he is one of the more accurate Mangaka around who is splashing things into his work. And translators get it wrong quite a lot due to how the Japanese language works in particular. The puns are the ones I note that throw most translators into pitches. :::We have Stephen's translations though he is the most accurate around, I myself praise his translation, Stephen gets it wrong himself too. Stephen often writes it though a western audience is reading, which means puns and jokes becme westernized to be more suitable for us. However, he is nothing extremem like 4Kids style so he can be forgiven for that, most readers truly wouldn' be able to understand the pun (which is why we have translation sections). One-Winged Hawk 23:26, 17 February 2009 (UTC) One Piece Data Book green has come out and says his name is Dracule. Also Moria is Moriah and Jinbei is Jinbe. Are You Serious 04:07, November 4, 2010 (UTC) And Again Should the "Translation and Dub Issues" section be removed? I don't think it should. But that's what ' ' keeps doing...among other things. :Kaizoku-Hime 04:49, 26 July 2009 (UTC) :Nope since it mostly addresses the romanization problems with Mihawk's name and other things that can be misinterpreted and lost in translation.Mugiwara Franky 05:02, 26 July 2009 (UTC) Then can you please do something about the anon? There's a bit of an edit war between us. :Kaizoku-Hime 05:27, 26 July 2009 (UTC) ::The section is composed of completely false information though. I made some posts in June regarding this--the theory posted is nonsensical. The whole argument that Mihawk's surname is composed from "Jules" and "Joule" makes no sense due to the omission of "rakyu" from "Jurakyuuru." You can't do that in Japanese; essentially what was done was a rearrangement of letters to suit the theorist's needs. The romanization for "Juraquille" into Japanese is wrong too. Whomever wrote that had absolutely no knowledge of how to speak or write Japanese. If nothing else, it needs a complete rewrite. It's mostly poor speculation. -Mr. Toto 19:06, 6 August 2009 (UTC) :::About ALL thats confirmible, which I won't deny is the dracula bit. If you take that away your left with another name. Thats about it. I'd prefer this article be just "mihawk" but everyone wants a full name. As for the "Juraquile" bit, wrong, it was confirmed by a knowledgeable speaker of Japanese at A.Park. There you go. In fact at the time the person pointed out that was a poor translation of Mihawk's name. It comes purely from K-F's who I know at least once have admitted their own error in the name. This was an earlier day translation, same as "merman" appears in their sub and THEY have admitted their mistake there. I'm expecting the full 360 degrees back to "Dracule" when the proper english name comes out... Since that is close to the name "dracula". You must understand there was a discussion over this (and I was corrected with one mistake I initally made) and it was written done as "possible". BUT we need that vital Oda spelling and we've never recieved that. This is like the discussion over "Odz" which turned out to be "Oars", no one even thought of that one. :::And please, I'm not a native speaker but I do have a fair amount of knowledge on the Japanese language. Enough to lecture someone on the confusions the language causes, since being a long time anime fan (from a pre-"rabid" Naruto anime fan era) I have read a lot about this kind of thing. One-Winged Hawk 10:52, October 29, 2009 (UTC) ::::I also write "Mihawk" in other articles, but someone always goes and lengthens the name. My reason for doing this is to avoid name changing and a heap of edits following the final romanization once it appears (its over due). I'm often disappointed when it happens. One-Winged Hawk 10:56, October 29, 2009 (UTC) You know I really didn't think about this before but why is everybody ignoring anything Mr. Toto is saying? Is it because they know his name is really Dracule? Drunk Samurai 02:04, September 17, 2009 (UTC) :To be honest, I didn't know there was a conversation here. I'm not ignoring anyone... But thanks for pointing it out elsewhere. I'm adressing his reply now. One-Winged Hawk 10:52, October 29, 2009 (UTC)